Solarium Cars

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diesell48	Solarium Cars	Lead	[-]
Posts: 649 (05/24/09 07:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	I picked on of these up recently... the WKW 3 solarium windows per side in the lounge car. There is a picture of a similar car called "Denver" in the Stegmaier book on the rear end of the Gotham Limited, I believe. Upon closer examination, the Denver does not appear to be a match for the WKW as you move away from the solarium. The decals on the WKW enclosed sheet seem to want to make this a "Canyon" series name. Much to my surprise, I have very few pix of Soalrium cars. My question is what name, if any, would be appropriate for the WKW car to match the general layout and window pattern of the car? Would it be PRR or Pullman? 1946-1954. Jeez all I wanted to do here is slap "Denver" decals on the thing, but it isn't the same car! Went to Altoona the other day and they have a solarium but it's a two solarium window car and was obviously in MOW service anyway. Can it ever be easy??? Bill
blfprr		#1	[-]
Posts: 95 (05/24/09 02:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Bill: I did research on these cars some time ago and came to the same conclusion. I don't remember which,but some cars are listed in some recent books with the wrong floor plan. I believe the car that appeared in TKM some time ago should not have stripes as it was white lined before that scheme went into force. To bad as that's what I was going to letter my car. Can't lay my hands on the decal sheet to check out the names ,but here are some as listed : Ogden Canyon W/L 5/58,Afton Canyon W/L 1/57,Echo Canyon W/L 1/57. Bill Faith
pennsylvania54	RE: Solarium Cars	#2	[-]
Posts: 152 (05/24/09 03:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Bill and Bill: First, I have been unable to use the decals furnished with any of my Walthers cars due to different colors being out of register. I checked Garry Spear's site and found the Plan 3975 cars listed at http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_Planix.htm#Plan3975. Two of these cars are shown on the last page of Liljestrand and Sweetland's Pennsylvania Parlor Cars, TEXAS PLAINS (Plan 3975G) and ECHO CANYON (Plan 3975F). DENVER, in Steigmaier p. 29 and Sweetland's Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial Vol. Three p. 52 (same photo), is a Plan 3975 (no suffix). As Bill M. discovered, the right side windows on the model do not represent DENVER. However, the windows on the left side do follow the pattern on ECHO CANYON, but not those of TEXAS PLAINS. Lacking any other photos or info, I lettered mine ECHO CANYON. I concluded that the window patterns of Plans 3975, 3975F, and 3975G all differed. It is interesting that the "date unknown" photo of ECHO CANYON appears with the words "ECHO CANYON" clearly visible, but nothing at all on the letterboard. Since the photo is said to be in Sunnyside yard, I assume the car is in the midst of being repainted from PULLMAN to PENNSYLVANIA. There are also no stripes visible. Since I model October 1953, I am content with my car being fully decorated. The underbody details are another story. I have left mine alone, but if I ever find a photo of the right side of ECHO CANYON, I will upgrade them. As it is, this car is a stand in for a Plan 3989, 8 Section, Buffet-Lounge, (CLUB cars) for my Dominion Express; see The Keystone, Vol. 22, No. 2. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL
blfprr		#3	[-]
Posts: 96 (05/25/09 01:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Steve: There is a good shot of a perfect broadside shot(might be a builders photo) of Echo Canyon on page 84 of Kratvilles Passenger car Catalog book. It says it is plan 3975-C AND IS FROM LOT 6262 (1929) and is in UP service. The other cars from this lot with suffex Canyon are; Bryce,Ogden and Rainbow. Looks like the PRR eventualy recieved all of them. Picture shows very well all locations of equipment at that time. I only have a photo copy of this book that Tom Olsen did for me about 20+ years ago and the quality of the pictures have deteriourated badly. On page 83 is the floor plan for 3975-C which shows all window locations. I don't remember if I matched this to the Walthers car, but believe I did as I am also going to letter my car Echo Canyon. Bill Faith
blfprr		#4	[-]
Posts: 97 (05/25/09 03:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Bill and Steve: Been doing a little re-research and may be able to answer your questions. The Walthers car matches the C variant dead on. Now with this info I remembered a picture in pennsy power 3, and sure enough on page 390 is a car matching this plan. Now, across the page is a picture of the end of a train and the last car matches the Walthers car and also the C floor plan. Looks like we have both sides of a Canyon solarinm within 2" of each other! Both appear to be ice A/C cars. If you know if they were ice A/C I'm betting there in the Canyon group. Bill Faith
diesell48	solaria	#5	[-]
Posts: 651 (05/25/09 04:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Thanks guys... looks like a c plan canyon will be the applied lettering. Bill M.
pennsylvania54	RE: Three Window Solaria	#6	[-]
Posts: 153 (05/25/09 05:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Bill and Bill: ECHO CANYON as seen in Lil. & Sweet. Parlor Cars is definitely an ice a/c car. A word on suffixes: C and F. It may have been a C on the UP, but by the time the PRR got it, ECHO CANYON was modified to an F. Both Lil. & Sweet and Garry Spear call it an F. However, that does not mean the window arrangement changed, and, in this case, it obviously did not. For consistency with known PRR sources, mine is a Plan 3975F. Hmmm. That photo on p. 390 of PPIII might just be good enough to get me to change mine to an ice car. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL
blfprr		#7	[-]
Posts: 98 (05/26/09 01:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Thanks steve: Will take that into account. Bill Faith
jbothwell		#8	[-]
Posts: 362 (05/26/09 07:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Hi Guys, In case anyone is interested, the solarium car at the museum in Altoona is "Union League Club", a Plan 3989A 8 Section, Buffet, Lounge. There was a Keystone article on these car years ago. Jamie Bothwell
diesell48	solarium cars	#9	[-]
Posts: 653 (05/26/09 07:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	accepting the "F plan" as being the WKW car, I was able to find two cars built to this plan... Echo Canyon and Afton Canyon. Those are evidently, your choices. Bill M
pennsylvania54	Solarium Correction	#10	[-]
Posts: 154 (05/26/09 10:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Well, shoot. I hate it when this happens. I misread Garry Spear's info on Plan 3975: ECHO CANYON is listed as a "C", one of ten. There are two "F's" listed: AFTON CANYON and BRYCE CANYON. This is of course at odds with Lil. & Sweet. Parlor Cars, which cites ECHO CANYON as an "F" in the photo caption. With a dislike for conflicts like this, I went to The Pullman Project at http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/index.htm and found that ECHO CANYON was indeed built as an"F" in 1930, and finding, as Bill M. did, that AFTON CANYON is the other "F". BRYCE CANYON was found to actually have been a "C", built a year earlier. An error like this is rare on Garry's site. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL
diesell48	SOlarium stuff	#11	[-]
Posts: 654 (05/27/09 09:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite	Lost in all this is "what is a PRR C-type". The WKW is an 'F', but do we actually know that the PRR C types were much different? It's all a little weird, huh? I now have good cars for Eventide or Nocturne (two total cars), Marsh Run or Willow Wood (an old WKW kit) Total - two cars. And now Afton or Echo Canyon... we think two cars built. No one, and I mean NO ONE can know it all. Let alone remember it! I can now put together a pretty nice train of heavyweight sleepers, even though it was never a goal of mine! Bill M.

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